Thread History
[DRGW] This week's arcane question: about CZ power Jim Griffin drgwlpd@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-03 16:28:14
[DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power jimfitch3@gmail.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-03 16:47:32
[DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power glenn_leasure@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-04 22:26:50
[DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power jimfitch3@gmail.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-04 23:32:36
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power BNSFBarker@aol.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 01:31:44
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power glenn_leasure@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 16:12:06
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power Mel Patrick raildudemel@gmail.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 09:31:43
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power glenn_leasure@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 16:59:25
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power BNSFBarker@aol.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 12:03:40
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power jimfitch3@gmail.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 17:06:52
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power BNSFBarker@aol.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 12:32:55
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power glenn_leasure@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 18:21:00
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power Mel Patrick raildudemel@gmail.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 11:23:58
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power Mel Patrick raildudemel@gmail.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 12:10:04
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power BNSFBarker@aol.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 14:11:04
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power glenn_leasure@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 19:24:10
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power BNSFBarker@aol.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 14:28:44
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power glenn_leasure@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-05 19:37:40
Re: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power glenn_leasure@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2017-11-07 03:11:42
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Message
From: jimfitch3@gmail.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...)
Date: 2017-11-04 23:32:36
Subject: [DRGW] Re: This week's arcane question: about CZ power

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As the linked photo&#39;s show, there is no shortage of photo&#39;s of F3 power set 5541-44 leading one of the CZ trains during the 1961-65 time frame.&nbsp; That same set shows up in the video series Rio Grande Odyssey, which I highly recommend.&nbsp; I began pouring over photo&#39;s in the 1990&#39;s in my library of books to study the 1960&#39;s.&nbsp; Books with 1960&#39;s coverage that I own include:<div><br></div><div>Zephyr&#39;s thru the Rockies - Gooohard &amp; Edmundson</div><div>Rio Grande in Color Vols 1, 2, 3 and 5 - Morning Sun Books</div><div>Rio Grande Diesels Vol 1, 2 and 3 - Joseph Strapac</div><div><span style="word-spacing:normal;">Rio Grande in the Rockies - Ronald C Hiil</span><br></div><div>Rio Grande : Crest of the Continent - Chuck Conway</div><div><br></div><div>Years ago I also picked up a series of very cool large format post cards at the Arden Fair Mall in Sacramento titled Vanishing Vista&#39;s.&nbsp; Several show 1960&#39;s photo&#39;s of the California Zephyr and a few others show the Royal Gorge and Prospector train.&nbsp; The Prospector photo was taken in the early 1950&#39;s and is rare in that it shows one of the two steam generator equipped F7A&#39;s prior to it&#39;s wreck and removal of it&#39;s factory equipped steam generator.&nbsp; The-steam generator details on the roof can clearly be seen in the photo taken on as it came down the Front Range with the Flat Irons in the back ground - possibly a publicity photo.<br><br></div><div>Add to that the DVD Rio Grande Odyssey and photo&#39;s on the internet now, and photo collections posted by on some website such as RRPicturesArchive, RR-fallenflags.org and others, there is a lot of material available to review practices at different times on the D&amp;RGW including the 1960&#39;s.</div><div><br></div><div>So far all photographic evidence I have seen points to standard power on the California Zephyr between the cessation of the PA&#39;s and the wreck of F3ABBA set 5521-5524 was comprised of Rio Grande&#39;s 3 sets of F3&#39;s, which were almost always dedicated solely as passenger power.&nbsp; As an aside, there are photo&#39;s of the D&amp;RGW F3&#39;s hauling freight not long after they were purchased.&nbsp; For the post PA years of the CZ, most commonly it was F3&#39;s 5521-24 and 5541-44 and when needed, one or two additional F3&#39;s was added or substituted.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I think one of my Vanishing Vista post cards shows a 5 units set which includes one of the A units from set 5531-5534 elephant style on the head end so units from that set were used too - possibly when the other F3&#39;s needed maintenence.&nbsp; And we know from the wreck photo in summer of 65 there was a B unit with a 48&quot; DB fan which was by my guess F9B 5772 when referencing info on Don Stracks site below.</div><div><br></div><div>Don Stracks UtahRails.net chronology page:&nbsp;<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://utahrails.net/drgw/rg-loco-chron.php">http://utahrails.net/drgw/rg-loco-chron.php</a></div><div><br></div><div>The page above lists F9B 5772 wrecked in 1965 so that was probably part of the F3 5521-24 power set wrecked that summer while pulling the CZ.&nbsp; The chronology page makes no mention of F3ABBA 5521-24 as wrecked until the following year 1966, which is when they were retired officially.&nbsp; The wreck is discussed in Rio Grande Diesels Vol 1.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Don Strack&#39;s chronology page shows 3 of the 5541-44 F3&#39;s retired in 1965, but I suspect from reading Joseph Strapac&#39;s account in Rio Grande Diesels Vol 1 that they ran well into the fall of 1965 and as late as December 1965 when the first F3 retirements were made.&nbsp; IIRC, there is a cover photo showing an ABBA set in October that included F3AB units and F7AB units, so there is an example showing the transition away from the F3&#39;s and portending of the coming retirements which, from memory in Strapac&#39;s account occurred in Dec 1965 and Jan 1966.&nbsp; After Jan 1966, it was all F7&#39;s and F9&#39;s pulling the CZ into retirement.</div><div><br></div><div>For HO models related to the California Zephyr during the single stripe era 1961+, Athearn Genesis has offered:</div><div><br></div><div>- F3ABBA set 5541-5544</div><div>- F9ABB set 5771, 5762 and 5763</div><div>- F9AB set 5774 &amp; 5773<br>- F9m(F3A) 5531 (wreck rebuilt with a mix of F9 and F3 features)</div><div>- F7A 5764</div><div><br></div><div>Walthers Proto 2000 has offered single stripe F3&#39;s also but in some ways the Genesis version are slightly more accurate in the way the phase details were rendered.&nbsp; Add to that there is a consensus that the Genesis Highliner F nose is the best rendered in HO when compared to the prototype for US type EMD F units.</div><div><br></div><div>All of the above Genesis models represent F units used on the California Zephyr, although F9m pictures are rare (it can be seen on the Prospector in the years before retirement looking a bit ratty).&nbsp; After the F3&#39;s were retired, F7A 5764 was one of the regulars along with it&#39;s mate F7A 5761; they were paired with the RGZ F9B&#39;s for a number of years as set 5761, 5762, 5763 and 5764.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve always wished Athearn would offer more F units commonly seen pulling the CZ late in the 1960&#39;s - which included:&nbsp;<span style="word-spacing:normal;">- F7A&#39;s 5761, 5571, 5574, 5551.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style="word-spacing:normal;"><br></span></div><div><span style="word-spacing:normal;">F9A 5774 was used on the CZ until it was wrecked in IIRC 1968 (can&#39;t find wreck date right now) but isn&#39;t shown retired on Don Stracks site until 1969.&nbsp; It may go by the retire date and notes if wrecked, rather than have the date the unit was actually wrecked.</span></div><div><br></div><div>The 1960&#39;s was an interesting period on the D&amp;RGW and would be cool to model, although I&#39;ve chosen late 1970&#39;s for my modeling focus.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers, Jim Fitch</div><div>&nbsp;</div>



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